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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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welcome back to the ufo rabbit hole

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podcast i'm your host kelly chase

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today we begin part two in our

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three-part series on the intersection of

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nazi and ufo lore

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in part one we explored the emergence of

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the modern concept of the ufo which

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traces its roots back to a string of

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sightings in 1947 including the infamous

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alleged flying saucer crash in roswell

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new mexico

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that context is crucial for

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understanding how nazi ufo lore evolved

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so if you haven't listened to part one

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yet i recommend you start there

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in this episode we're going to begin to

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dive into the complex web of mythology

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connecting ufos to nazi germany it's a

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strange world where the occult art

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ancient religions international intrigue

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and secret technology collide to create

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a dense and potent lore

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it speaks to us in the language of our

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most primordial myths and yet there's an

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undeniable modernity to it

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the specificity of names places and

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events intertwined with these

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fantastical stories lends them an

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uncanny immediacy that one doesn't often

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find in legends and scriptures through

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the refraction of nazi ufo lore we can

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see the shadows of humanity grappling

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with the incomprehensible

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the horrors of modern warfare the more

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than 6 million lives lost to an

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unspeakable holocaust and 200 000 more

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vaporized into nothingness just three

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weeks after the first successful test of

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a nuclear bomb

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the collective trauma of these events

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lives in us

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these events didn't just change the

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world

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in many ways they created a new one as

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the world that existed before became

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irretrievable

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as a species we've always used myths and

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symbols to communicate and collectively

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process the things for which we don't

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have words

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and so it's not surprising that a

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baroque mythology has sprung up around

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the events of world war ii

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we have a deep human need to process

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these things in a way that is more than

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just historical

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and at the same time that this mythology

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began to form a new kind of archetype

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was emerging in our collective

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consciousness

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that of the ufo

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in the form of the flying saucer ancient

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symbols of the otherworldly and divine

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coalesced around a new paradigm

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one that was distinctly modern and

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technological

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and as with the gods of old the ufo

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became a sort of rorschach inkblot onto

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which we projected our cultural hopes

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and anxieties

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we can see this as we track the ways

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that these stories and our

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interpretations of them shift and evolve

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over time

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which isn't to say that the ufo

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phenomenon doesn't represent something

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real

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i personally believe that it does

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when you trace all these sprawling and

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divergent mythologies to their root it

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seems impossible to deny that there's

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something real there

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what else are we to make of decades of

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declassified documents that seem to show

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that the government and military has

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long grappled with the phenomenon not as

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an outside possibility but as a present

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and potentially dangerous reality

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the famous swiss psychiatrist carl young

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was fascinated with ufos largely because

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of their singular position at the very

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intersection of the real and the

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mythical

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he had many different opinions on the

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nature of the ufo phenomenon throughout

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his life but near the end he seemed to

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settle on the opinion that ufos were

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quote an archetype with physical

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attributes

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now we could spend all day unpacking

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what that might mean and whether we

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should approach that statement literally

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or metaphorically but i don't want to

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get lost in the weeds

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what's most important for today's

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purposes is just that we recognize this

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dichotomy within the lore that it speaks

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both to something real and to something

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mythical

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we need that understanding to begin to

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unpack and deconstruct these stories in

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the hopes of uncovering the deeper

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truths that they point to

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all right so let's get to the good part

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the ufo lore itself

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our goal in this first pass will be

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simply to take an overview of the ufo

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lore surrounding world war ii then we

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can circle back and begin to deconstruct

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it to see what it all might mean

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but for now you can take off your

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critical thinking hat and just marinate

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in the weirdness

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and we'll start with a connection

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between nazi germany and the occult

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in many ways the roots of the philosophy

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that would come to underpin the nazi

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party as well as the origin point for

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many of the most fantastical elements of

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ufo lore surrounding the events of world

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war ii can be found in the same place

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in the writings of a notorious 19th

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century author and spiritualist madam

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helena blavatsky

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ukraine in 1831.

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born into an aristocratic family

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levotsky was highly unusual among women

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of her time

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quick-witted and stunningly well-read

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the largely self-educated blavatsky

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traveled widely as a child

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during her teenage years her self-driven

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curiosity and scholarship led her to

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develop an interest in western

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esotericism

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at the age of 17 she agreed to marry a

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vice governor of a province in the

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russian empire who was nearly 30 years

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her senior

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it's not totally clear why she agreed to

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marry him although she was reported to

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have later said that she was attracted

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to his belief in magic

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however whatever enthusiasm she may have

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had regarding the union quickly

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dissipated

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after trying unsuccessfully to stop the

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marriage she moved with him to start our

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palace where she then made repeated

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attempts to run away

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her husband and family finally relented

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and plans were made to allow her to

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travel back to her family with two

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servants as escorts

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perhaps unsurprisingly blavatsky seized

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the opportunity to escape from her

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chaperones and bribe the captain of a

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ship eventually arriving in

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constantinople

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from there she began what came to be

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decades of globetrotting traveling to

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greece egypt india america canada and

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most shockingly to tibet a country that

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was strictly closed off to foreigners

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throughout these travels she claimed to

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have met and studied under several

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different esoteric masters

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these masters revealed to her ancient

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occult secrets and histories that were

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the basis of a lost religion from a more

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spiritually and technologically advanced

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chapter in humanity's distant past

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she also claimed to be a powerful medium

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and tales of her astounding paranormal

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abilities made her a prominent figure in

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the growing spiritualist movement

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madame blavatsky wrote two books isis

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unveiled in 1871 and the secret doctrine

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in 1888

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these books formed the foundation of a

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new belief system which she called

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theosophy

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existence of a shadowy group of

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spiritual adepts known as the masters

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who are essentially the guardians of

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secret ancient wisdom

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based primarily in underground

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strongholds in tibet these masters

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comprised a fraternity of highly evolved

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men who had attained advanced levels of

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moral and intellectual development

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due to their enlightened nature these

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masters were said to have gained

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supernatural powers through clairvoyance

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astral projection telepathy and more

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through their mastery of secret

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knowledge they also achieved extra long

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life spans allowing them to live for

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hundreds if not thousands of years

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madame blavatsky claimed that both of

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her books were more or less dictated to

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her telepathically by the masters and

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that what they revealed within them was

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no less than the one true universal

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religion

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as evidence of the mystical origins of

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these texts some of blavatsky's

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followers and associates claimed that

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she had no access to many of the books

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that she directly quoted in her writing

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implying that she had received them word

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for word through paranormal means we

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could spend all day talking through the

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various sprawling and tangled beliefs

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outlined in blavatsky's work but we

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won't i will include a bunch of

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resources in the episode brief if you'd

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like to explore that further however for

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the purposes of this conversation there

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is one belief in particular that is of

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special importance and that is the idea

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of root races and sub-races

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in her writing madame blavatsky claimed

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that humanity can be divided into

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various root races which can be further

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divided into sub-races

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drawing from a variety of ancient

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traditions and esoteric histories

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blavatsky presented the following

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history of humanity and its various root

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races on this planet

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the first root race on the planet was

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the polarians they were not physical

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beings as we imagined them but existed

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an inferior state of pure spirit and

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reproduced by dividing themselves like

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amoebas

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the second root race was the

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hyperboreans who were the first physical

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manifestation of humans they lived in a

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land called hyperborea in what is now

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northern canada greenland iceland

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scandinavia and northern asia

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the third root race was the lemurians

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lemuria was supposedly an ancient mostly

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sunken land mass in the indian ocean the

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remains of which are modern-day

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australia

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due to the prevailing belief that the

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earth was 200 million years old

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blavatsky claimed that the lemurians

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lived alongside dinosaurs they also

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reproduced by laying eggs and i don't

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even know what to say about that lemuria

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was wild

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the fourth fruit race was the atlanteans

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as in the literal inhabitants of

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atlantis the atlanteans represent the

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golden age of human civilization and

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evolution

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these people didn't just have psychic

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abilities but advanced technology

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including flying machines however as is

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common in atlantean mythology the people

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of atlantis became materialistic and

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warlike with some of them even turning

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to black magic

283
00:10:09,750 --> 00:10:07,360
all of this led to the eventual sinking

284
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:09,760
of atlantis from which only a few of the

285
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:12,160
white magic magicians managed to escape

286
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:13,760
after having been warned of the coming

287
00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:16,160
cataclysm by the masters

288
00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:18,240
these magicians then became the founders

289
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:20,959
of the fifth race the aryans

290
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:22,320
and i'm sure you can see where this is

291
00:10:25,350 --> 00:10:23,600
going

292
00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:25,360
aryans were thought to be the literal

293
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:27,440
and spiritual descendants of the golden

294
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:28,880
age of men

295
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:31,360
as such they were more spiritually pure

296
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,360
civilized and intellectually advanced

297
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:35,519
race than other sub-races which were

298
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:37,360
regarded to be more like animals than

299
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:39,120
like the divine spiritual beings from

300
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:40,399
which they believed themselves to

301
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:41,680
descend

302
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:43,360
blavatsky was not the first to make

303
00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:45,040
these claims about the existence of a

304
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:47,040
superior aryan race descended from the

305
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,519
survivors of atlantis but she certainly

306
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,360
played one of the most significant roles

307
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:53,680
in introducing it to the mainstream the

308
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:55,519
devastating results of which will be

309
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:58,079
forever etched in our collective psyche

310
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:00,480
we'll come back to this in a bit there

311
00:11:04,069 --> 00:11:02,160
were other similar ideologies

312
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,079
percolating around the same time that

313
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:06,160
both borrowed from and expanded upon the

314
00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:08,399
tenets of theosophy that would also

315
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:10,160
prove to be influential in the coming

316
00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:11,519
decades

317
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:14,399
in 1871 edward bulwar-leighton first

318
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:16,160
anonymously published his book called

319
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:18,079
vril the coming race

320
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:20,000
this novel told the story of a wealthy

321
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:22,320
traveler who while exploring a natural

322
00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:25,040
chasm deep within a mine shaft discovers

323
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,279
a subterranean civilization of highly

324
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:29,920
advanced beings called devilia

325
00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:32,079
these beings are described as angelic

326
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,680
and their city whose architecture

327
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:35,519
mirrors that of ancient egypt is a

328
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:38,000
technological utopia

329
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,680
the traveler learns that they are the

330
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,680
descendants of an ancient people who

331
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:43,839
fled underground thousands of years ago

332
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,920
to escape a great flood

333
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:47,680
their technology is powered by an

334
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:50,320
all-permeating fluid called vril a

335
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:52,079
latent source of energy that is in

336
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:53,279
everything

337
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,360
rail is described as an immeasurable

338
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,360
force that can be used for healing for

339
00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:00,000
destruction and for anything in between

340
00:12:03,829 --> 00:12:01,760
the spiritually elevated brilliant

341
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,839
people are able to master and control

342
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:05,360
this energy through training of their

343
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:06,240
will

344
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:08,000
however the degree to which they are

345
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:10,240
able to do so depends on their bloodline

346
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:12,000
and heredity

347
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,360
although this was published as a

348
00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:15,440
fictional account the narrative was well

349
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,440
aligned to the emerging belief system at

350
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:19,600
the center of a growing pagan revivalist

351
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,200
movement in europe

352
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,120
spurred by the rise of theosophy and

353
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:25,360
other similar spiritualist movements

354
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,440
many of which adopted vril as the term

355
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:29,360
for a universal power connecting all

356
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,320
things

357
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:32,399
the lines between fact and fiction and

358
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:34,000
between science and myth were

359
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,600
increasingly blurry

360
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,519
this caused many to take this novel as

361
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:39,680
being if not a direct history than at

362
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,360
least an allegory pointing to a

363
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,360
fundamental truth

364
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,279
in the lead-up to world war ii this

365
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,600
belief in vril was alleged to be literal

366
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,279
among many high-ranking members of

367
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:51,120
germany's most influential occult

368
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,560
fraternities

369
00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:54,320
one person said to be adept at

370
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:56,320
harnessing this power was a powerful

371
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:58,880
medium named maria orsic a legendary

372
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:01,120
beauty with long blonde hair

373
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,279
orsic was the leader of a shadowy occult

374
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,360
group called the vril society which was

375
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:07,440
essentially a black lodge of powerful

376
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,600
magicians who allegedly played a major

377
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:11,279
role in eventually bringing hitler to

378
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,720
power

379
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:14,639
another occultist group that figured

380
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,639
prominently in the rise of nazi germany

381
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,560
was the fuel society

382
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,240
fuel was supposedly the name of a

383
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:22,320
mystical homeland from which the aryan

384
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:23,920
people originated

385
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,839
located at the northernmost point of the

386
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,440
globe through an entrance to a

387
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:29,120
subterranean world

388
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,360
fuel was said to be populated by a race

389
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:33,519
of light-skinned blue-eyed blond-haired

390
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,320
giants who had once ruled the world

391
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:38,480
the primary focus of the fuel society

392
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,240
was an obsession with the origins and

393
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:42,800
protection of the aryan race

394
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,240
those who wanted to join the fuel

395
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,399
society had to sign a special blood

396
00:13:50,069 --> 00:13:48,480
declaration of faith concerning their

397
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,079
lineage which stated

398
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,079
the signer hereby swears to the best of

399
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,079
his knowledge and belief that no jewish

400
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,399
or colored blood flows in either his nor

401
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:58,560
his wife's veins and that among their

402
00:14:02,150 --> 00:14:00,560
ancestors are no members of the colored

403
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:02,160
races

404
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,320
perhaps not surprisingly membership into

405
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,320
this group reads like a who's who of

406
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:08,639
prominent nazi leaders and sympathizers

407
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,959
the most notorious of which was heinrich

408
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,040
himmler a leading member of the nazi

409
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:14,800
party and the man considered to be the

410
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,550
it's not hard to see how this potent mix

411
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,720
of racism fervent nationalism and

412
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:24,639
spiritualist awakening took root in

413
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:27,199
germany in the years after world war one

414
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,639
for a country that was morally and

415
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,959
financially decimated in that defeat

416
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:32,639
this movement offered a compelling

417
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:34,800
remedy in the form of a renewed national

418
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:37,279
pride and identity a clear group of

419
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:39,680
others to scapegoat for their problems

420
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:41,920
in the insinuation of a forgotten power

421
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:43,519
that if discovered and properly

422
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,440
harnessed could vanquish their enemies

423
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:47,040
once and for all

424
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,720
although there was a lot of variation in

425
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,399
the details the ideas that gained

426
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:52,320
traction among the nativist german cults

427
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,160
that arose in the aftermath of world war

428
00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:56,880
1 took on a predictable shape and shared

429
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,680
several basic core tenets

430
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:01,440
first and foremost was the belief in the

431
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:03,920
existence and superiority of a distinct

432
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,920
aryan race that is directly descended

433
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:07,760
from some kind of more highly evolved

434
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:08,959
beings

435
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,199
the second is a belief in a true aryan

436
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,079
homeland this pagan garden of eden is

437
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,480
the point of origin for the aryan race

438
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:18,399
its alleged location varies with the

439
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,560
most common being either atlantis or

440
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:22,240
some sort of hollow earth situation

441
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:23,920
whose entrance is generally considered

442
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:24,839
to be in the

443
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:27,519
arctic the third is a belief in ancient

444
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:29,360
and secret knowledge that is somehow

445
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,839
associated with unimaginable power that

446
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:33,920
can be both spiritual and technological

447
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:35,120
in nature

448
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:36,959
and tying all of this together was a

449
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:39,759
convoluted mix of myth world religions

450
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:42,639
emerging science and virulent racism

451
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:44,800
that was both flexible and wide-reaching

452
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:46,720
enough to seemingly fit any sort of

453
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,160
narrative or belief system that you

454
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,560
wanted to ascribe to it

455
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,639
like water it can find its way through

456
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,199
even the finest seam settling into the

457
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,120
cracks in low places

458
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:59,040
and in the hard freeze of war it

459
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,800
destroys everything it permeates from

460
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:02,480
within

461
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,079
what followed wasn't just one of the

462
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:06,079
most gruesome and macabre chapters of

463
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:08,240
our history but one of the most truly

464
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:10,240
bizarre as well

465
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,160
many leaders and high-ranking officials

466
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:14,160
within the nazi party believed that a

467
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,160
wild hodgepodge of things from norse

468
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,399
gods to ancient atlantis to the legends

469
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,880
of king arthur to ancient hindu texts

470
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,720
were literally true

471
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:24,320
and not only that they believed that

472
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,240
these stories contained clues to

473
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,320
locating the supernatural powers and

474
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:30,399
weapons described within them

475
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:32,399
and this wasn't just a passing interest

476
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:34,320
but an obsession into which they poured

477
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,040
considerable amounts of resources

478
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,920
in july of 1935 just four years before

479
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,680
the start of world war ii

480
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,160
head of the notorious nazi ss heinrich

481
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:46,720
himmler established the ananerbe which

482
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,519
means inheritance of the forefathers the

483
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,839
primary function of the ananerbe was to

484
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,839
serve as a think tank devoted to the

485
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:55,839
task of promoting the racial doctrines

486
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:57,759
of the nazi party

487
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:00,160
specifically this meant finding evidence

488
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,560
in giant air quotes to support the idea

489
00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:04,480
that modern germans descended from an

490
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,959
ancient aryan race that was biologically

491
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:09,439
superior to other racial groups

492
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,919
that evidence could then be turned into

493
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,160
propaganda providing a scientific

494
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,959
justification for nazi ideology

495
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:19,120
to meet its aims it employed scholars

496
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:21,280
from a wide range of academic fields

497
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:24,160
including archaeology anthropology

498
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:27,839
ethnology history musicology biology

499
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:30,960
zoology botany astronomy medicine and

500
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,919
more however it was alleged that this

501
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,600
wasn't all that was going on within the

502
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:37,120
anna nerve

503
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,960
hindler also believed that the group's

504
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,039
investigations might reveal ancient

505
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,760
secrets and even ancient weapons which

506
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,600
nazi germany could use against its

507
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,440
enemies in the war

508
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:49,679
through the anna nerve himmler funded

509
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:52,400
expeditions in search of atlantis thor's

510
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:54,799
hammer and shambhala the spiritual

511
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:57,200
kingdom of tibetan buddhism

512
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,720
and himmler's hatred for all

513
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,880
judeo-christian religions didn't stop

514
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,400
him from mining their scriptures and

515
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,320
legends in search of whatever ancient

516
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,559
secrets may be hidden there as well

517
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:08,160
he launched campaigns in search of

518
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,919
relics like the holy grail and the ark

519
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:11,600
of the covenant which he believed to be

520
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:13,600
the sources of tremendous otherworldly

521
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:15,120
power

522
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:17,200
and according to certain ufo lore the

523
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:19,120
anna nerve was successful

524
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:20,640
though what exactly they found is the

525
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,320
matter of some debate

526
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:24,000
some think they found vast ancient

527
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:26,160
treasures or templar gold

528
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,840
something they found evidence of in

529
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:30,000
blueprints 4 ancient highly advanced

530
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:31,760
technology and weaponry

531
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,520
some believe that they found a powerful

532
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,520
relic like the grail which opened up a

533
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:37,440
line of communication between the nazi

534
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:38,880
leadership and some sort of

535
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:41,200
extraterrestrial or supernatural beings

536
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,280
that gave them aid in the war

537
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:45,039
but whatever the source what the

538
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,799
ananerbe discovered gave them a

539
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:49,120
staggering technological advantage that

540
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:51,120
very nearly turned the outcome of the

541
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,320
war

542
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:54,240
or perhaps these technological

543
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,080
advantages didn't come from the annenaer

544
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:58,400
bay or at least not only from the anna

545
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,760
nerve

546
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,760
according to some ufo lore there are

547
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,760
other explanations as well

548
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:06,000
some say that the powerful medium maria

549
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,160
orsic was in communication with advanced

550
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:10,000
beings who telepathically relayed

551
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:11,760
instructions to her for the construction

552
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:13,919
of advanced flying machines that looked

553
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:16,480
very much like flying saucers

554
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,160
still others claimed that germany had

555
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:20,880
their own version of roswell in 1936

556
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:23,280
just three years before world war ii

557
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,440
when a ufo crashed in the black forest

558
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:26,720
in freesburg

559
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,559
the residents of that town allegedly

560
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,320
awoke to what sounded like a massive

561
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,240
plane crash and found a disc-shaped

562
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,919
object that had crashed nearby

563
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:35,520
containing the bodies of multiple

564
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:38,080
humanoid but definitely not human crew

565
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:39,679
members

566
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,160
of the ss appeared and took possession

567
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:46,320
of the craft and its crew both of which

568
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,760
were whisked off for scientific

569
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:49,039
examination

570
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,039
from there german scientists worked to

571
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,039
reverse engineer the craft leading to

572
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:55,039
massive breakthroughs in anti-gravity

573
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,480
technology

574
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:58,320
and in the lore there are plenty of

575
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:00,880
stories of experimental nazi technology

576
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,600
including disc shaped anti-gravity craft

577
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:05,520
perhaps the most notorious of these was

578
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:08,080
dieglock or the bell in reference to its

579
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,039
shape

580
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,280
this mysterious craft was said to stand

581
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,080
12 to 14 feet high and 9 feet wide and

582
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,799
was made out of a thick ceramic material

583
00:20:20,590 --> 00:20:18,799
when turned on it was rumored to glow

584
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,600
and spin and to have some sort of

585
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,799
anti-gravitational effect

586
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,400
although its exact purpose is the

587
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,640
subject of some debate it was generally

588
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:28,559
thought to be some kind of nazi super

589
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,640
weapon anti-gravity craft or even

590
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,720
possibly a time machine

591
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:34,320
it was believed to be powered by a

592
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:36,320
mysterious purplish liquid

593
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:38,159
metallic-looking substance called

594
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,000
xerom-525

595
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,480
which was highly radioactive

596
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:44,400
as a result most of the people who

597
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:46,559
worked closely with dyglock died from

598
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,640
the effects of radiation which was

599
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:50,320
convenient for keeping this powerful

600
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:51,760
weapon a secret

601
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:53,600
at the end of the war it seemingly

602
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:56,960
disappeared vanishing without a trace

603
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,720
other potential evidence of highly

604
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,120
advanced nazi aircraft began to be

605
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,280
reported by allied pilots over both

606
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:05,280
europe and the pacific starting in the

607
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,960
early 1940s

608
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,799
again and again they described seeing

609
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,640
fiery lights in the sky

610
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,720
glowing red white and orange these

611
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,640
lights were reported to follow allied

612
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:17,280
aircraft conducting impossible maneuvers

613
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,840
and moving at impossible speeds

614
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:21,520
in their movements they seem to be

615
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,960
toying with them

616
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:24,720
could the nazis really have discovered

617
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:26,559
paradigm shattering technology during

618
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,600
the war

619
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:29,600
and if so could they have been helped by

620
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,720
some mysterious non-human intelligence

621
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:34,799
these questions form the foundation for

622
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,280
the bulk of ufo lore and there are many

623
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,679
who believe that the answer is yes

624
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:41,679
including by the way our old buddy tom

625
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:42,640
delong

626
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,320
believes it doesn't mean that it's true

627
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:47,919
but based on everything we discussed in

628
00:21:51,990 --> 00:21:50,000
episodes six and seven i always find it

629
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:52,000
interesting to consider

630
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,679
but if the nazis did develop this

631
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,880
technology

632
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,240
where did it go

633
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:58,480
what happened to it after the war

634
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:01,120
according to the lore top ss officers

635
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:03,600
including hitler himself escaped germany

636
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:05,280
with their advanced technology at the

637
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:08,080
end of the war to a land they called new

638
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:09,520
schwabenland

639
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:15,360
a colony in remote antarctica

640
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,120
it was said that the nazis were led to

641
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,360
this vast icy wasteland from secret

642
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,200
knowledge discovered by the anna nerve

643
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:23,200
on their expeditions perhaps from

644
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,280
ancient texts in tibet

645
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,280
as for what they found there and why

646
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:28,880
they would choose to make their new home

647
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,280
in such an inhospitable climate

648
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,600
that is a matter of much debate

649
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:35,600
some say that the ancient texts revealed

650
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:37,679
that antarctica was the original home of

651
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,200
atlantis and that the atlantean

652
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,679
civilization still existed under the ice

653
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,840
and deep underground others say

654
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:46,000
antarctica is the location of a secret

655
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:47,600
alien base

656
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:50,400
whatever the specifics the same sinister

657
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:52,880
central theme remains the same

658
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,360
the fourth frank lives on somewhere in

659
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:57,440
antarctica and they are potentially

660
00:23:02,549 --> 00:22:59,760
being aided by a highly advanced

661
00:23:13,580 --> 00:23:02,559
non-human intelligence with technology

662
00:24:04,130 --> 00:23:25,040
[Music]

663
00:24:18,410 --> 00:24:04,140
[Applause]

664
00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:29,660
[Music]

665
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:57,750
now that we've looked at the ufo lore

666
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,000
surrounding world war ii the obvious

667
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:01,840
question is how much of this can

668
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,520
possibly be true

669
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:05,600
and as is always the case in this world

670
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,760
of high strangeness the answer to that

671
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,520
is complicated

672
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:11,600
as we discussed in the previous episode

673
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:14,320
the modern concept of ufos didn't really

674
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,400
pop into the wider public consciousness

675
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:18,480
until a few years after the end of world

676
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:19,679
war ii

677
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,760
and even then it took several years and

678
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:23,679
even decades more for the concept to

679
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,600
fully evolve into the popular version of

680
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,200
the phenomenon that we're familiar with

681
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,799
today

682
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:30,960
even the most fundamental tropes such as

683
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:33,600
their extraterrestrial origins weren't a

684
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:35,760
given in those early days and only

685
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,320
became so after a prolonged period of

686
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,080
collective interpretation through the

687
00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:42,720
cultural zeitgeist so what are we to

688
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,039
make of ufo lore that predates what are

689
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:46,720
largely regarded to be the earliest

690
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:48,960
modern ufo sightings

691
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,760
we recognize that although 1947 marked

692
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:52,880
the beginning of the modern

693
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:55,520
interpretation of the ufo phenomenon but

694
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:57,600
this phenomenon wasn't new at all it was

695
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,640
ancient

696
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:00,400
humans have recorded interactions with

697
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,080
strange beings and craft that come from

698
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,480
the sky since the dawn of history but

699
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:06,400
whereas in the past these events were

700
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:08,480
interpreted through a metaphysical lens

701
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:10,640
often being attributed to god's angels

702
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:11,840
and fairies

703
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:14,720
1947 marked the decisive inflection

704
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,159
point where this phenomenon became

705
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,320
widely interpreted to be technological

706
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,559
rather than mystical in nature

707
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:22,320
so certainly there's no reason to

708
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:24,320
believe that there were no ufos before

709
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,440
1947. we know that there were

710
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:29,200
and we know for a fact that there were a

711
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,039
large number of sightings of anomalous

712
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,200
aerial phenomena throughout world war ii

713
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:35,279
by the armed forces on every side of the

714
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:37,919
conflict so the emergence of world war

715
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:40,799
ii ufo lore isn't arbitrary it clearly

716
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,039
has some correlation to actual recorded

717
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:45,120
historical events

718
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,960
however it's also clear that the

719
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:48,720
particulars of this lore as we know it

720
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,880
today developed largely through the lens

721
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,559
of the understanding of the phenomenon

722
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:54,240
that emerged in the years and decades

723
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,600
after the war

724
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:57,520
more modern interpretations were applied

725
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,080
to events in the ever more distant past

726
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:02,320
and the result inevitably are stories

727
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:03,840
that are likely to point to actual

728
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:05,520
events but the extent to which they

729
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,720
resemble these events is hard to say

730
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:10,799
complicating matters further is that in

731
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:12,559
applying modern interpretations to the

732
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,960
events of the past one has the advantage

733
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:16,320
of hindsight

734
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,000
the tales that were woven in the second

735
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,399
half of the 20th century about ufos

736
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:23,120
during world war ii in many ways conform

737
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:24,799
to recorded history

738
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,279
real people real events real secret

739
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:29,279
missions and real secret technology are

740
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:31,520
woven throughout the fabric of this lore

741
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:33,279
making it hard to tell where history

742
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:35,360
ends and fantasy begins

743
00:27:38,389 --> 00:27:36,880
these tales have an element of

744
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,399
truthiness that can make them as

745
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:40,320
difficult to fully debunk as they are to

746
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:41,520
believe

747
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:43,679
and yet if you're like me there's a part

748
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,000
of you that really wants to believe it

749
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:48,399
all of it there's a reason that they

750
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:50,640
base the entire indiana jones franchise

751
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,840
on this stuff

752
00:27:55,669 --> 00:27:53,600
it has all the stuff of myths and

753
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:55,679
legends wrapped up with a more modern

754
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,679
and immediate symbol of evil in the form

755
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,360
of nazi germany

756
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,200
to grapple with the new technological

757
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,600
horrors that emerged during world war ii

758
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,440
we instinctively reach for the myths of

759
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,919
our past to help us find meaning

760
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:09,760
but myths are not meant to be taken

761
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,799
literally

762
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:12,799
nor are they to be dismissed lightly for

763
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:14,320
they contain within them potent

764
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,159
primordial symbols that can help us to

765
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:18,159
begin to decode the aspects of human

766
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,679
experience for which we do not have the

767
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,520
words to speak

768
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,960
so let's take a little time to

769
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,039
deconstruct this lore and see what new

770
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,200
perspectives might be revealed

771
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:28,799
and we'll start this exercise where we

772
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:30,960
started before with madame helena

773
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:32,960
blavatsky when we think about the

774
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:35,279
fantastical stories of madame lavotsky's

775
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,120
life and her channeling of the tenets of

776
00:28:41,669 --> 00:28:39,679
theosophy from the great hidden masters

777
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,679
the most obvious question is is this

778
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,039
chick for real

779
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,440
surely she must have been a fraud right

780
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,440
and the short answer is of course she

781
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,600
was while various biographers have

782
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:51,600
argued both for and against the reality

783
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:54,080
of blavatsky's extraordinary claims it's

784
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,840
difficult for any rational person to

785
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,840
deny that entire portions of her story

786
00:29:02,230 --> 00:28:59,760
and backstory appear to be largely if

787
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:02,240
not entirely fabricated

788
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:04,480
for example the stories of her extensive

789
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:06,080
travels have been often called into

790
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:07,039
question

791
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,720
while it's not disputed that she managed

792
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:10,320
to lose the chaperones who were

793
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,399
escorting her back to her family

794
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,159
what happened next is a matter of some

795
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:16,720
considerable controversy

796
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,799
according to blavatsky's later accounts

797
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:20,640
after arriving in constantinople she

798
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:23,120
began nearly a decade of globetrotting

799
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,039
visiting multiple continents and even

800
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:27,360
managing to make it into tibet

801
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:28,880
there are a few reasons why her claims

802
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,240
are disputed

803
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,399
the first is that if madonna levotsky

804
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:34,399
really did go to all of these places it

805
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:35,679
would make her one of the greatest

806
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:38,000
travelers of the 19th century

807
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,919
traveling in the mid-19th century was

808
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,480
grueling and dangerous travelers on the

809
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,399
road were vulnerable to an almost

810
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,640
innumerable set of dangers ranging from

811
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:48,640
disease to animal attacks to highway

812
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,159
banditry

813
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,240
travel by boat was equally treacherous

814
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,480
if not more so for obvious reasons

815
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,399
so you can see how one might question

816
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:59,039
how madame blavatsky a plump unathletic

817
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:00,880
aristocratic woman who was often

818
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,960
traveling alone could have managed to

819
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:04,799
make even one of the journeys she later

820
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:06,720
described in her writings much less all

821
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:09,120
of them but that's not the only reason

822
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,960
that her accounts are questionable

823
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,480
there's also the fact that the stories

824
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,159
that she later told of her travels were

825
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:16,320
fairly fantastical in nature

826
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:18,320
among these she claimed to have saved a

827
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,399
famous opera singer from being murdered

828
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,159
to have been a concert musician for the

829
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,320
royal philharmonic in london to have

830
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,480
survived multiple shipwrecks and to have

831
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,240
encountered and studied under a number

832
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:30,320
of mysterious esoteric masters around

833
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:31,440
the world

834
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:33,520
and the final and perhaps most damning

835
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:35,200
challenge to madame lavotsky's accounts

836
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,039
of her world travels is that her stories

837
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,760
are almost entirely uncorroborated she

838
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,919
kept no personal diary or records during

839
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:43,760
this time period and virtually no

840
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,640
evidence exists to support her claims

841
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:48,240
add to that the fact that her accounts

842
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:49,760
often conflicted with each other in

843
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:51,520
terms of chronology and other key

844
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,840
details and there is considerable reason

845
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:55,520
to believe that this chapter of her life

846
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,440
was largely a work of self-promotional

847
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:58,799
fiction

848
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:00,399
there was also the question of her

849
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,120
purported supernatural abilities madame

850
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:04,960
blavoski made a name for herself in the

851
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:07,120
spiritualist circles of new york city by

852
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:09,279
conducting seances where she allegedly

853
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,519
displayed these remarkable powers

854
00:31:15,509 --> 00:31:13,440
however investigations that have been

855
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:15,519
done into these claims revealed them to

856
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:17,679
likely be rather cheap and obvious magic

857
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:19,039
tricks rather than mystical

858
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:20,480
manifestations

859
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:23,120
for example letters allegedly sent from

860
00:31:27,269 --> 00:31:25,039
the deceased or from the secret masters

861
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,279
with whom she was allegedly in contact

862
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:29,760
would often magically appear in a box on

863
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,720
the wall in her dining room and once a

864
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,480
teacup that was broken during his seance

865
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:36,000
and placed into this box was

866
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,919
miraculously fixed when it was opened

867
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:39,600
just a few moments later

868
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:41,440
investigators noted that this box

869
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,519
conveniently shared a wall with bovaci's

870
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:45,519
private quarters and it was claimed that

871
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:48,720
a secret panel was found connecting them

872
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:50,720
however while the mystical origins of

873
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:52,640
levatsky's theosophy were almost

874
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:55,279
certainly fraudulent her work resonated

875
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:57,919
deeply with many highly educated people

876
00:32:01,430 --> 00:31:59,760
and her books are undoubtedly works of

877
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,440
remarkable scope and scholarship

878
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,840
particularly for a woman of her day

879
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,000
blavatsky's ability to blend western

880
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,159
esotericism and eastern thought with

881
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:10,159
cutting-edge science tapped into

882
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,159
something potent

883
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,159
in the midst of the ontological chaos of

884
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:16,799
the time period theosophy provided a way

885
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:18,880
for people to acknowledge the inroads

886
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:21,440
made by science without abandoning their

887
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,279
connection to the mystical

888
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:25,200
and it gave a new relevancy and weight

889
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,880
to spiritual beliefs that had become

890
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,200
increasingly under attack from science

891
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:32,240
using science itself as justification

892
00:32:35,710 --> 00:32:33,840
the fact that much of this science

893
00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:35,720
consisted of idiosyncratic

894
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:37,000
misinterpretations and

895
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:38,720
misrepresentations of scientific

896
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,880
theories didn't really matter

897
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:42,960
but to truly understand why this kind of

898
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:45,519
ideology resonated so strongly with many

899
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:47,440
in the lead up to world war ii

900
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:49,120
we need to understand the rise of

901
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:50,720
fascism itself

902
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:52,799
because although blavatsky is often

903
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:54,720
credited with birthing the ideology that

904
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:56,799
eventually evolved into the core of nazi

905
00:33:02,149 --> 00:32:59,600
belief i'd actually argue that theosophy

906
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,159
was not the spark that lit that fire

907
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,760
the environment that gave rise to

908
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,600
fascist belief systems existed

909
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,760
independently of this new age thought

910
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:09,519
and what followed upon their inevitable

911
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:12,000
collision was a symbiotic relationship

912
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:14,480
that fueled both movements

913
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,399
the beginnings of fascist thought began

914
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:18,480
to emerge in the 1880s as a revolt

915
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:19,840
against the rising emergence of

916
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:22,159
materialism and positivism which we

917
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,559
discussed in the last episode but also

918
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:27,279
against urban liberalism and democracy

919
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,200
they condemned individualism which they

920
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,279
saw as corrosive to the basic structure

921
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:33,679
of society and believed that each person

922
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,480
was only one part in a larger collective

923
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:38,399
many believed that civilization was at a

924
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,000
dangerous turning point which would

925
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:42,480
require a massive and total solution to

926
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:44,320
avoid the destruction of humanity as we

927
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:45,440
know it

928
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,600
after germany suffered a humiliating and

929
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,519
financially devastating defeat in world

930
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,240
war one this fascist undercurrent began

931
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:54,240
to gather into a mounting tsunami that

932
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:56,640
would soon crash down upon europe

933
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:58,559
in their defeat germany lost something

934
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:01,120
vital a shared national identity of

935
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:02,880
which they could feel proud

936
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,799
and as their economy buckled under the

937
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,640
weight of their war debts many were

938
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,480
looking for a scapegoat to blame for

939
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,480
their sorry state of affairs

940
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,560
as is generally always the case there

941
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,240
were those who had profiteered off of

942
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,240
the war which only added to the

943
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:18,159
working-class distrust of the urban

944
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:19,119
elite

945
00:34:23,869 --> 00:34:21,200
and due to a rising tide of fervent

946
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:23,879
german nationalism along with virulent

947
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:26,800
anti-semitism the urban elite became

948
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:29,359
more and more synonymous with the jews

949
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:31,200
as a result jewish people became the

950
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:33,200
scapegoats for all of the ills that had

951
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,800
befallen germany since the end of the

952
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:37,200
war and were even blamed for the loss of

953
00:34:41,109 --> 00:34:39,040
the war itself

954
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:41,119
what theosophy and other similar occult

955
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:42,960
and spiritualist movements provided for

956
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,960
the nazis was an ideological

957
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,040
underpinning that served to tie together

958
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:49,760
their disparate beliefs wishes and deep

959
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,359
anti-semitism into one unified narrative

960
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:55,440
within this mythology they were not a

961
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,599
defeated and embarrassed people they

962
00:35:01,829 --> 00:34:59,599
were the descendants of the aryans a

963
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:01,839
noble race of highly advanced beings who

964
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:04,160
themselves were descended from the gods

965
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,680
and it was very easy within that

966
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,760
paradigm to then relegate their enemies

967
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,839
to the ranks of lower races who were

968
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:11,440
further removed from their divine

969
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:14,480
origins and therefore less civilized

970
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:16,960
and in many ways less human

971
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:18,640
and by positioning these sketchy

972
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,480
esoteric histories that were clearly

973
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:22,240
steeped in the prejudices of their own

974
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:25,359
time alongside emerging scientific ideas

975
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:27,760
like the theory of evolution it lent a

976
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:29,359
weight and credibility to their belief

977
00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:31,040
system that it wouldn't have otherwise

978
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:32,400
had

979
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,359
that's a very dangerous combination

980
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:37,040
it allowed them to think the best of

981
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:38,640
themselves and the worst of their

982
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,359
enemies it turned a political and social

983
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,440
struggle into a mystical one with

984
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,440
profound stakes

985
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:47,359
it gave them a destiny that had to be

986
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:49,359
fulfilled and a birthright that had to

987
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:52,320
be defended whatever the cost

988
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:54,000
and it gave them a means to shut

989
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:55,839
themselves off to one of the most

990
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,880
essential pieces of their own humanity

991
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:00,720
our fundamental recognition of the

992
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:03,520
inherent value and sanctity of human

993
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:04,640
life

994
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:06,720
and though it's been 80 years

995
00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:08,640
we still don't have words for the

996
00:37:18,069 --> 00:36:11,220
darkness that followed

997
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:20,870
the next major piece of ufo lore is the

998
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,359
idea that during world war ii the nazis

999
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,640
were in possession of advanced

1000
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,880
technology far beyond that of any other

1001
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:29,200
country and that this technology came

1002
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,880
dangerously close to changing the

1003
00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:32,640
outcome of the war

1004
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:34,640
so is there any evidence that this was

1005
00:37:37,910 --> 00:37:35,680
the case

1006
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:37,920
and it turns out that there is

1007
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,440
although the space race that would

1008
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,599
follow the war was almost exclusively a

1009
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:43,599
race between the cold war superpowers of

1010
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,760
the united states and the soviet union

1011
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:47,440
it was actually the germans who made

1012
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:49,040
many of the early breakthroughs in

1013
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:50,880
rocket technology that made space

1014
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:52,960
exploration a possibility

1015
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,800
and many of these breakthroughs occurred

1016
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:56,480
during the war

1017
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:58,880
in 1942 led by a brilliant young

1018
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,440
scientist named werner von braun

1019
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:03,119
germany developed the world's first

1020
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:05,920
ballistic missile the v2

1021
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:08,720
with a range of 200 miles the v2 could

1022
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,200
travel at 3 500 miles per hour while

1023
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,079
packing a 2200 pound warhead

1024
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,839
it far surpassed anything that the

1025
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:17,520
united states or the soviets had in

1026
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,599
their arsenals at the time

1027
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:21,359
the german high command hoped that this

1028
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:22,960
weapon would strike terror into the

1029
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:24,640
hearts of the british in particular and

1030
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,320
weaken their resolve

1031
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,560
however in the end the v2 ended up

1032
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,480
playing a much more minor role than they

1033
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,400
would have hoped though the first

1034
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:34,240
successful test flight took place in

1035
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:37,440
october 1942 the v2 wasn't prepared for

1036
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,520
operational combat firings until two

1037
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:42,320
years later in september of 1944 meaning

1038
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:44,079
that it was only a factor in the last

1039
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:45,680
year of the war

1040
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:47,839
by 1944 the british had already

1041
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:49,839
withstood four years of conventional

1042
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,839
bombing and managed to more or less keep

1043
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:54,079
life humming along so the threat of the

1044
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,160
v2 didn't carry the same weight that it

1045
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:58,400
once would have which isn't to say that

1046
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:00,079
the v2 didn't cause significant

1047
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,760
devastation during the last year that it

1048
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:03,599
was in use or that it wasn't a

1049
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,119
formidable weapon

1050
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,119
in one particularly destructive attack

1051
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:09,920
in antwerp a v2 fell on a cinema

1052
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,359
tragically killing 561 moviegoers

1053
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:15,200
however despite its capacity for

1054
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:17,440
devastation it didn't prove to be the

1055
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:19,359
game changer in the war that the nazis

1056
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,359
had hoped it would be

1057
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,760
the v2 did become a game changer after

1058
00:39:27,829 --> 00:39:25,680
the war though the breakthroughs in

1059
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:27,839
rocketry that the germans made led by

1060
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:30,160
von braun were essential to making space

1061
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,720
exploration a reality without that

1062
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:34,480
technology we never would have made it

1063
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,760
to the moon

1064
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:37,839
so how did the germans manage to beat

1065
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:40,000
both the united states and the soviet

1066
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,520
union in the development of this

1067
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:43,920
critical new technology and how did they

1068
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,599
manage to accomplish these things in

1069
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,599
such a short period of time

1070
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:49,680
could the stories be true did they

1071
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:51,920
really have outside help and where might

1072
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:53,520
this help have come from

1073
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:55,280
let's explore the possibilities and

1074
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,599
we'll start with an easy one the case of

1075
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,280
maria orsic

1076
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,800
while there's plenty of lore surrounding

1077
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,480
the beautiful medium who channeled the

1078
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,480
plans for advanced flying machines from

1079
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:06,400
some extraterrestrial or otherworldly

1080
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:07,280
source

1081
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:09,200
there's actually very little evidence to

1082
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:11,680
suggest that she ever existed

1083
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:13,520
most historians consider her to be

1084
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,000
either entirely fabricated or perhaps a

1085
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:18,079
composite of various other spiritualist

1086
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,760
mediums at the time

1087
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:22,400
and as for the vril society there is

1088
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,560
evidence that such a group did exist but

1089
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,400
it likely didn't have nearly the power

1090
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:28,640
or influence within the nazi party as is

1091
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,160
often suggested

1092
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,400
it seems to have been a small occultist

1093
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:34,079
club whose significance was only

1094
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,079
conferred upon it years later as the

1095
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:38,400
nazi ufo lore evolved

1096
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:40,160
so if we're looking for the source of

1097
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,240
advanced nazi technology we'll have to

1098
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,760
look elsewhere

1099
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,000
one obvious possibility suggested by the

1100
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,720
lore is that germany had a roswell-esque

1101
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:50,800
ufo crash that gave them a starting

1102
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:52,319
point from which they could begin to

1103
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:55,119
back engineer advanced technology

1104
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,720
so what evidence is there that this

1105
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,480
could actually be the case

1106
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,240
well as you might imagine there's not

1107
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,760
much to find

1108
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:03,520
we've discussed in past episodes how

1109
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,560
notoriously opaque the roswell cases

1110
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,400
there's considerable evidence to suggest

1111
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:10,160
that something crashed in the desert in

1112
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:12,079
new mexico that was almost certainly not

1113
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,760
a weather balloon and that the

1114
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,359
government covered it up

1115
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:17,040
but you can't get much further than that

1116
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:18,960
without having to rely on rumor

1117
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:20,880
speculation or hearsay

1118
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,880
there's lots of theories but so far at

1119
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:25,680
least there's no real smoking gun

1120
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:28,160
with the black forest crash in 1936

1121
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:30,960
there's far less to go on even than that

1122
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:33,040
in fact in my research i wasn't able to

1123
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:34,960
find any mention of the alleged crash

1124
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,599
before 1993 where it appeared in the

1125
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:39,839
book secret societies and their power in

1126
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,720
the 20th century by jan von helsing

1127
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:44,160
i was unable to trace it back any

1128
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:45,839
further because it appears in this book

1129
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:47,520
without citation

1130
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,599
and von helsing it should be noted is a

1131
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,680
fairly notorious conspiracy theorist

1132
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:54,079
whose beliefs can only be classified as

1133
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,839
highly anti-semitic

1134
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,760
he routinely cites the protocols of the

1135
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:59,440
elders of zion in his work as a

1136
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,960
legitimate source

1137
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,800
if you aren't familiar the protocols is

1138
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:04,960
an incendiary and entirely fictional

1139
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:07,280
text outlining the alleged jewish plan

1140
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:09,680
for global domination which nazis used

1141
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:12,079
to help justify the holocaust so not

1142
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:14,160
only does van helsing expose himself as

1143
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:15,680
someone who lacks the discernment to

1144
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:18,160
properly vet his sources but his clear

1145
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,160
pro-nazi ideology gives him a clear

1146
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:22,160
motivation to advance narratives that

1147
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,240
romanticize and mythologize the third

1148
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,000
reich despite having no evidence that

1149
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,720
these events actually occurred

1150
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,640
another piece of evidence for the crash

1151
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:32,480
that is often referenced in the lore is

1152
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,000
the german's experimentation with

1153
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:36,240
anti-gravity that allegedly began

1154
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,560
shortly after the crash but the evidence

1155
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:40,880
here is also highly circumstantial and

1156
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:43,440
not rooted in any direct evidence

1157
00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:45,440
the german's anti-gravity research was

1158
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:47,359
supposedly headed up by the austrian

1159
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:49,520
naturalist philosopher and inventor

1160
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:51,119
victor shawberger

1161
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:53,040
schauberger in many ways was like the

1162
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:55,359
austrian version of nikola tesla though

1163
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:57,040
he worked mostly with water instead of

1164
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:58,880
electricity in his pursuit of more

1165
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:01,920
powerful and natural sources of energy

1166
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,240
like tesla his esoteric approach to his

1167
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:06,720
research led him to important inventions

1168
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:09,440
and innovations and also like tesla

1169
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:11,200
speculation about what he may have

1170
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,880
achieved beyond the scope of known

1171
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:14,480
science abounds

1172
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,319
of particular interest to shawberger

1173
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,480
were vortices and water which he

1174
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,319
believed to be the key to unlocking

1175
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,480
these secret energy sources and perhaps

1176
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,160
even anti-gravity

1177
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:26,400
and shawburger actually designed a craft

1178
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:28,240
that was essentially just like a flying

1179
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:30,560
saucer using a water-based propulsion

1180
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,520
system

1181
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:33,359
however there doesn't seem to be any

1182
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:34,960
evidence that this craft was anything

1183
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:37,119
more than hypothetical and repeated

1184
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:39,119
attempts by engineers over the years to

1185
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,200
create a working prototype based on his

1186
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,680
designs have proved unsuccessful

1187
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,520
i'd also argue that it doesn't make a

1188
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:47,520
ton of sense especially based on what we

1189
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:49,359
know today that the germans would have

1190
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,040
been messing around with water-based

1191
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:53,119
anti-gravity propulsion systems if they

1192
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:54,800
were in fact in possession of highly

1193
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:57,200
advanced non-human technology that just

1194
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,480
doesn't add up

1195
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:00,560
so while we can't entirely rule out that

1196
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:04,079
the 1936 black forest ufo crash occurred

1197
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,839
it seems pretty likely that this wasn't

1198
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:07,119
the case

1199
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:10,000
okay so maybe there wasn't a ufo crash

1200
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,520
maybe they got the technology from

1201
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,760
somewhere else maybe they discovered a

1202
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:16,000
lost extraterrestrial relic and maybe

1203
00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:17,680
they made contact with the non-human

1204
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:20,079
intelligence by some other means

1205
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:22,560
after all what about dieglock if the

1206
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:24,960
nazis had paradigm-shattering technology

1207
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:26,880
like that we wouldn't need to know for

1208
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:29,119
sure where they got it from to recognize

1209
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:30,800
the real possibility that they were

1210
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,560
helped in some way by a non-human

1211
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:35,200
intelligence right and that's true

1212
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,440
however although dieglock is perhaps the

1213
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,359
most famous example of the nazi's

1214
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:41,440
alleged advanced technology it is

1215
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,760
unfortunately one for which we have very

1216
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,440
little direct evidence

1217
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:47,119
in fact it appears that the first

1218
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:48,880
mention of dyglock was in a book that

1219
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,440
was published in 2000 by polish author

1220
00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:53,280
igor witkowski

1221
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:55,119
in his book entitled the truth about the

1222
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:57,760
wonder weapon witkowski claims to have

1223
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:59,839
discovered the existence of dyblock by

1224
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,040
reading transcripts from the

1225
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:03,280
interrogation of a former nazi ss

1226
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,880
officer named jacob sporenberg witkowski

1227
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:08,880
alleged that he was shown the classified

1228
00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:11,520
transcripts in august of 1997 by an

1229
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,760
anonymous polish intelligence contact

1230
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:15,200
who had approached him claiming to have

1231
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:17,040
access to information and documents

1232
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,880
regarding secret nazi weapons and

1233
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,160
technology

1234
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,319
however wikkowski claimed that he was

1235
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,400
only allowed to transcribe the documents

1236
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:26,560
and was not allowed to make copies so

1237
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,400
there is no direct evidence to prove

1238
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:30,000
that these documents ever actually

1239
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:31,280
existed

1240
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:33,599
in this way dye glock is an excellent

1241
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,319
example of how ufo lore can develop long

1242
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:38,079
after the actual events that the lore

1243
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,720
references and how historical events can

1244
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:42,800
be used to anchor stories and ideas that

1245
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,359
are born out of wild speculation if not

1246
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:47,359
outright fraud to lend them more weight

1247
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:49,359
and credibility

1248
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:51,200
after the publication of the truth about

1249
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:53,680
the wonder weapon in 2000 the lore

1250
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,839
surrounding dieglock exploded with

1251
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,839
various authors on the topic each adding

1252
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:59,520
their own interpretation and their own

1253
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,640
spin

1254
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:02,800
for example in his book the hunt for

1255
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:05,119
zero point author nick cook proposed the

1256
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,480
notorious ss officer hans kamler the man

1257
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:10,480
who oversaw both the construction of the

1258
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:12,720
concentration camps and the v2 rocket

1259
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,040
program had traded dyglock to the

1260
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,680
americans in exchange for his freedom

1261
00:46:21,589 --> 00:46:19,760
it's an interesting theory however it's

1262
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,599
also a convenient one considering that

1263
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:23,839
kamlar's actual fate after the war is

1264
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:25,280
unknown

1265
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,359
members of his staff claim that he died

1266
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:29,520
of cyanide poisoning in germany in may

1267
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,400
of 1945 although there is no evidence

1268
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,480
for this and it could easily have been a

1269
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:36,560
ruse to cover up his escape considering

1270
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,960
that a body was never produced

1271
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:40,720
some have claimed that he was captured

1272
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,400
and taken to the u.s where he eventually

1273
00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,160
took his own life inside a maximum

1274
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,319
security prison but there's no real

1275
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,720
evidence to support this theory either

1276
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,400
and this is how it goes with much of the

1277
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,040
ufo lore related to nazi germany

1278
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:54,960
the flimsiest shred of evidence

1279
00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:57,040
sometimes nothing more than a rumor

1280
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:59,599
becomes the basis for a vast and complex

1281
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:00,800
mythology

1282
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:04,640
their way through the historical record

1283
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:06,720
co-opting and conforming to the details

1284
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:09,599
of actual people places and events just

1285
00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:11,440
enough to give them the seeming weight

1286
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:13,040
of credibility

1287
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,319
they say that where there's smoke

1288
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:17,040
there's fire and i tend to agree but in

1289
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,280
the case of much of the nazi ufo lore

1290
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:21,520
i'd argue that it's not so much smoke as

1291
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:23,599
it is a thick fog that quickly burns

1292
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:26,319
away in the light of the morning sun

1293
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:27,599
but then there's the case of the

1294
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,240
so-called foo fighters on their surface

1295
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:31,760
the anomalous lights in the sky that

1296
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,680
were reported by allied pilots during

1297
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:35,520
the war would seem like they would be

1298
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:37,680
the easiest stories to dismiss

1299
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:40,480
after all no real contact was made and

1300
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,400
these sightings never culminated in any

1301
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,160
kind of an attack as you'd expect if

1302
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:46,400
they were german technology

1303
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:48,079
and considering that the term foo

1304
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:49,920
fighter first appeared in the reports at

1305
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:51,839
the end of

1306
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,280
war it doesn't feel like much of a

1307
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:57,200
stretch to assume that these were fairly

1308
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:58,960
isolated incidents that were likely

1309
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:01,280
caused by exhaustion combat fatigue and

1310
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,359
simple misidentification

1311
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:05,920
however once you dive into it there's a

1312
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:08,400
lot more to the story than meets the eye

1313
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,240
in particular i'd like to express my

1314
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,720
gratitude to graham rendell for his book

1315
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:15,200
ufos before roswell european foo

1316
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:17,599
fighters 1940-1945

1317
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:19,599
which was an invaluable resource while

1318
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:21,760
doing my research if you are at all

1319
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:23,359
interested in this subject you should

1320
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,960
absolutely check it out i'll leave a

1321
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:27,200
link in the episode description

1322
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:28,800
rendell's book is remarkable for

1323
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:30,559
compiling what is perhaps the most

1324
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:32,079
complete collection of reports

1325
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,599
concerning the phenomena that would

1326
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,079
become known as the foo fighters and his

1327
00:48:39,670 --> 00:48:38,160
research paints a clear picture of why

1328
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:39,680
it is that this phenomenon was not

1329
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:41,760
studied more closely and it wasn't

1330
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:44,400
because these were isolated incidents

1331
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,559
in fact reports of anomalous lights and

1332
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:48,400
objects in the sky were recorded in

1333
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:50,559
official reports throughout the war both

1334
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:52,880
in europe and over the pacific

1335
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:54,800
these reports included descriptions of

1336
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:58,160
flying discs torpedoes swarms of bees

1337
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,640
and balls of fire of unknown origin

1338
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:02,480
performing maneuvers that should have

1339
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,079
been impossible

1340
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:06,000
airmen and intelligence officials alike

1341
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,480
were baffled by these objects in the sky

1342
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:10,319
which they generally believed to be some

1343
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:12,720
sort of german secret weapon

1344
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:14,720
however as the war continued on for

1345
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:16,640
years without the emergence of a german

1346
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,240
superweapon that could explain these

1347
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:20,480
anomalous events they only grew more

1348
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:21,839
perplexing

1349
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,920
in the fog of war it was difficult for

1350
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,440
anyone to connect with dots on these

1351
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:27,680
anomalous events partly because the

1352
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:29,920
events themselves were so varied and

1353
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:31,920
partly because the explanations for them

1354
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,680
kept changing to keep pace with the

1355
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:35,599
suspected german technology that they

1356
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:37,520
were thought to represent

1357
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:39,280
first they were balls of light and then

1358
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:42,000
rockets and then finally jets the name

1359
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,000
foo fighters wasn't adopted until the

1360
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:46,800
end of 1944 at which point some of the

1361
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:48,720
crews had become used to the encounters

1362
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:51,040
and mostly ignored them

1363
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:54,319
and then when the war ended in 1945

1364
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,960
these phenomena seemingly disappeared

1365
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,480
intensive searches of german

1366
00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:00,480
aeronautical facilities after the war

1367
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:02,000
didn't turn up anything that might

1368
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:04,240
explain the so-called foo fighters so

1369
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:05,920
there was no real reason for anyone to

1370
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,079
pursue the matter further and when the

1371
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,400
modern ufo phenomenon emerged two years

1372
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:13,440
later in 1947 the new paradigm of the

1373
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:15,680
flying saucer didn't seem to have as

1374
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:17,760
much correlation to the balls of lights

1375
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:20,480
and swarms of bees in the skies and so

1376
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:23,359
the foo fighters were mostly forgotten

1377
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:25,520
however looking at these reports now

1378
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,280
it's hard to deny that these airmen were

1379
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,359
seeing something in the skies

1380
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:31,440
the reports are too numerous and these

1381
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,599
highly trained aviators and intelligence

1382
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,680
officials are too credible as observers

1383
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,680
to be summarily dismissed

1384
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:39,839
and whatever they were we can be fairly

1385
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,599
certain that they weren't secret german

1386
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:44,240
technology because if they'd had it they

1387
00:50:47,829 --> 00:50:45,920
would have used it for something more

1388
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:47,839
impactful than the benign harassment of

1389
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,760
allied pilots

1390
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,839
and looking at these reports it's also

1391
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:53,440
clear that many of these anomalous

1392
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,599
objects displayed at least one of what

1393
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:57,839
lua lizondo calls the five observables

1394
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,960
of uaps anti-gravity instantaneous

1395
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,359
acceleration supersonic speeds without

1396
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:05,520
signatures low observability and

1397
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,359
transmedium travel

1398
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:09,280
so what the heck were they and what

1399
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:10,800
relation if any do they have to the

1400
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:12,960
modern ufo phenomenon

1401
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,800
there's simply no way to know

1402
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:16,319
but i do think it's interesting to

1403
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:18,079
recognize that the reports of the foo

1404
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,920
fighters aren't unique in the history of

1405
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:21,040
warfare

1406
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:22,720
in fact going back to the time of the

1407
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:24,720
romans during the punic wars in the 3rd

1408
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:27,359
century bc there were multiple reports

1409
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,440
over a series of years about gleaming

1410
00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:31,599
chariots and ships in the sky

1411
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:34,559
there was even one report in 217 bc that

1412
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:36,960
spoke of a fleet of these gleaming ships

1413
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:38,240
that were in the shape of the

1414
00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:41,440
traditional round convex roman shield

1415
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:43,599
which when turned on its side looks a

1416
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,440
lot like a flying saucer

1417
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:47,599
whatever ufos are they've seemingly

1418
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,000
always had an interest in our warfare

1419
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,480
and that's a disquieting thought

1420
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:54,640
so back to our original question is

1421
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:56,319
there evidence that the nazis had highly

1422
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,720
advanced technology during world war ii

1423
00:52:01,750 --> 00:52:00,160
and the answer is

1424
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:01,760
not really

1425
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:03,520
most of the evidence that exists is

1426
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:05,520
highly circumstantial and speculative

1427
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,280
with most of it emerging only in the

1428
00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:09,599
last 30 years or so and rapidly evolving

1429
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,720
from there

1430
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:12,559
and what credible evidence there is of

1431
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:14,240
the existence of anomalous and highly

1432
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,640
advanced technology during world war ii

1433
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:18,559
namely the foo fighters is almost

1434
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:20,640
certainly not german in origin

1435
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:22,400
so that just leaves the german rocket

1436
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,640
program which admittedly did manage to

1437
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:26,720
develop rocket technology that was far

1438
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:28,240
beyond the reach of both of the world's

1439
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:30,079
superpowers at the time

1440
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:31,440
and without which we wouldn't have made

1441
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:32,640
it to the moon

1442
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:34,240
could that be evidence of non-human

1443
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:36,880
intervention in the nazi war effort

1444
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:39,280
maybe but probably not

1445
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:41,599
the grim reality of the german rocketry

1446
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:43,440
program was that their advantage likely

1447
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:45,520
didn't come from an outside source but

1448
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,040
from within

1449
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,200
during the war thousands of prisoners of

1450
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:51,280
the concentration camps were forced to

1451
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,839
help build the v2 factory and assemble

1452
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:55,599
the rockets where they were worked

1453
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,200
literally to death or worse

1454
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,359
at least 10 000 died from illness

1455
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:03,520
beatings or starvation

1456
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:07,119
so yeah that's probably how they beat us

1457
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:09,200
so given everything that we've discussed

1458
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:12,079
about the evolution of nazi ufo lore you

1459
00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:13,520
might assume that we can write off the

1460
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,680
more fantastical accounts of the nazis

1461
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:17,599
searching for powerful ancient relics

1462
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:20,640
like the holy grail as mere fabrications

1463
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,160
i mean that part doesn't even really

1464
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:23,920
make sense right why would

1465
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:26,400
anti-christian occultists be seeking the

1466
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:28,960
object of a distinctly christian myth

1467
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,119
but weirdly this part of the story does

1468
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:33,440
seem to have some real truth to it as

1469
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:35,599
unbelievable as it may sound certain

1470
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:37,760
members of the anna nerve really were on

1471
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:39,920
a quest of sorts to find ancient relics

1472
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:42,960
from legends of old like some evil wario

1473
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:44,240
version of the knights of the round

1474
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:48,950
some of them believed not only that

1475
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,640
these relics were real but that they

1476
00:53:54,309 --> 00:53:52,800
represented advanced ancient technology

1477
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:54,319
that would give them an advantage in the

1478
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:56,720
war and lead them to victory

1479
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:58,559
and chief among them was heinrich

1480
00:54:04,150 --> 00:53:59,680
himmler

1481
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:04,160
was rooted in the most virulent strain

1482
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:06,400
of spiritualism as informed by writers

1483
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:08,160
like madame lavotsky

1484
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:10,000
himmler believed establishing a new

1485
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:12,640
aryan empire would require resurrecting

1486
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:15,680
ancient germanic myths in iconography he

1487
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:17,599
believed that for the aryan people to

1488
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,680
triumph over the lesser races they

1489
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,520
needed to reject traditional christian

1490
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,000
morality replacing it with a new kind of

1491
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:26,079
pseudo-religion that drew on chivalry

1492
00:54:30,710 --> 00:54:28,000
and mysticism

1493
00:54:32,549 --> 00:54:30,720
the ss itself in himmler's mind was an

1494
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:32,559
elite organization in the tradition of

1495
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:34,960
the teutonic knights an order which like

1496
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:37,200
the templars came into existence during

1497
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:38,720
the crusades

1498
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:41,520
the notorious ss iconography on their

1499
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,160
uniforms was derived from rune symbolism

1500
00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:46,079
of the double lightning bolt

1501
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:48,079
in himmler's vision the headquarters of

1502
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:51,040
the ss was the camelot of his modern day

1503
00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:52,400
order of nights

1504
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:54,319
one of the rooms was even named after

1505
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:56,640
king arthur while another was designated

1506
00:54:59,990 --> 00:54:58,000
the grail room

1507
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:00,000
in one particularly bizarre letter to

1508
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:02,640
the anna nerve himmler stated his belief

1509
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:04,960
that thor's hammer was an early highly

1510
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,520
developed war weapon of our forefathers

1511
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:09,040
believing that the third reich could

1512
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:10,799
harness this power if the hammer was

1513
00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:13,359
found himmler demanded that they find

1514
00:55:16,630 --> 00:55:15,119
all places in the northern germanic

1515
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,640
aryan cultural world where an

1516
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:18,400
understanding of the lightning bolt the

1517
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:20,480
thunderbolt thor's hammer or the flying

1518
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:22,799
or throne hammer exists

1519
00:55:27,190 --> 00:55:24,960
he also sponsored and participated in a

1520
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:27,200
very literal quest for the holy grail in

1521
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:30,160
1940 led by the eccentric medievalist

1522
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:33,119
and eventual member of the ss otto ron

1523
00:55:37,190 --> 00:55:35,359
in the arthurian opera parcival by

1524
00:55:39,750 --> 00:55:37,200
hitler's favorite composer richard

1525
00:55:41,430 --> 00:55:39,760
wagner the grail is located in a castle

1526
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,440
called montselvat

1527
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,680
this opera was based on a medieval poem

1528
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:45,920
called parsival which was written by

1529
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:48,640
wolfram von schumbach ron believed that

1530
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:50,559
this poem had the secret to the true

1531
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:52,720
location of the grail and that it

1532
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:54,799
contained clues which linked the story

1533
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:57,200
of parsival with the cathars

1534
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,640
catharism was a movement which

1535
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:00,240
flourished in medieval europe

1536
00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:02,799
particularly in france the cathars

1537
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:04,720
revived old gnostic concepts of

1538
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:06,720
christianity that radically opposed

1539
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:08,000
church teaching

1540
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:09,760
they believed for example that the god

1541
00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:11,280
of the new testament and the god of the

1542
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:13,839
old testament were separate entities the

1543
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:16,079
latter a jealous sinful entity and the

1544
00:56:20,150 --> 00:56:18,079
former a benevolent entity who would

1545
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:20,160
liberate humanity from him

1546
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:22,400
such ideas led to their excommunication

1547
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,160
and condemnation from the church and

1548
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:26,079
ultimately to a crusade against them

1549
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:28,480
resulting in their wholesale slaughter

1550
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,240
eventually the french royal forces

1551
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:32,160
besieged the cathar stronghold of

1552
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:34,640
monsignor a remote fortress in

1553
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:36,960
southwestern france for nine grueling

1554
00:56:40,870 --> 00:56:38,559
months before the cathars finally

1555
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:40,880
surrendered hundreds of cathars were

1556
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:43,200
burned alive in a bonfire after refusing

1557
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:45,839
to renounce their blasphemous beliefs

1558
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:48,000
however legends have maintained that a

1559
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:49,920
number of cathars managed to smuggle

1560
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:51,520
themselves out of the fortress

1561
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:53,200
undetected before their brethren

1562
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:55,200
surrendered carrying with them an

1563
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:57,839
immense secret treasure and so rom

1564
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:59,280
believing in the connection between the

1565
00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:01,440
cathars and the legends of the grail

1566
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,119
naturally assumed the grail must have

1567
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:05,520
been among this treasure and himmler who

1568
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,680
was particularly biased toward basically

1569
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:09,520
everything about this worldview thought

1570
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:11,200
this made perfect sense and so we

1571
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:13,119
supported the ultimately unsuccessful

1572
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,720
campaign to find the grail's final

1573
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:16,319
resting place

1574
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,400
according to the lore hitler himself was

1575
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,480
also seriously invested and involved in

1576
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:22,319
the search for the grail he had a

1577
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,240
special interest in a 12-paneled

1578
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:26,400
painting called the adoration of the

1579
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:29,040
mystic lamb more commonly referred to as

1580
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,839
the ghent altarpiece it was alleged that

1581
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:33,839
one panel of the painting depicting a

1582
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:35,760
sacrificial lamb standing on an altar

1583
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:37,680
while its blood flows into a chalice

1584
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:39,520
believed to represent the grail

1585
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:41,040
contained a secret code that would

1586
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:43,440
reveal the location of the grail

1587
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:45,200
however while it's clear that stories of

1588
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:46,880
hitler's obsession with his particular

1589
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:49,440
work of art are based in reality it

1590
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,040
likely wasn't because he believed that

1591
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:53,119
it would lead him to the grail the ghent

1592
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,000
altarpiece which dates back to 1432

1593
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:57,839
holds quite a significant place in art

1594
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,240
history for several reasons the first is

1595
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:02,400
that it is recognized as the first major

1596
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:04,880
oil painting oil had been used to bind

1597
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:06,559
pigments to paintings since the middle

1598
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:09,280
ages but jan van ike was the first to

1599
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:11,920
demonstrate the true potential of oils

1600
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,319
oil-based paints allowed for far greater

1601
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:16,799
subtlety and detail than largely opaque

1602
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:18,559
egg-based paints that had typically been

1603
00:58:21,990 --> 00:58:20,000
the norm before

1604
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:22,000
because of this innovation it can easily

1605
00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:23,680
be considered one of the most important

1606
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:26,079
and influential paintings ever made the

1607
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:27,920
second reason that the ghent altarpiece

1608
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:29,839
has a special place in history is that

1609
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:31,839
it's been stolen more frequently than

1610
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:34,400
virtually any other painting hitler was

1611
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:36,400
just one of many who conducted such a

1612
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,400
heist squirreling it away an assault

1613
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:40,480
mine in the austrian alps along with a

1614
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:42,960
vast treasure trove of other significant

1615
00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:44,559
works of art that he planned to someday

1616
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:47,040
display in a giant super museum the size

1617
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:48,960
of a small city that would be built to

1618
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:51,520
house all the greatest works of art

1619
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:53,200
and beyond just being significant as a

1620
00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:55,280
work of art in its own right the ghent

1621
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:56,799
altarpiece was of particular

1622
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:58,559
significance to hitler

1623
00:59:01,910 --> 00:59:00,799
after the end of world war ii as part of

1624
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:01,920
the conditions of the treaty of

1625
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,480
versailles it was forcibly repatriated

1626
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,319
to belgium from where it had previously

1627
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:08,400
been displayed in berlin hitler was

1628
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:10,319
driven by a desire to correct what he

1629
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:12,400
saw as the humiliation inflicted on the

1630
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,760
german people by the treaty of

1631
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:15,760
versailles and recapturing the

1632
00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:17,680
altarpiece would go some way toward that

1633
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,440
goal and the fact that it was by a

1634
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:21,359
germanic artist in the realistic

1635
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:22,960
northern renaissance style that hitler

1636
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:25,280
preferred only added to its appeal

1637
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,960
granted hitler had almost certainly

1638
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:28,400
heard the rumors about the ghent

1639
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:29,839
altarpiece containing the secret

1640
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:31,920
location of the grail and he may have

1641
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:34,400
even been intrigued by that possibility

1642
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:36,559
however that isn't necessarily evidence

1643
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,079
that he was directly engaged with the

1644
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:40,319
search for the grail as the painting had

1645
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:41,839
much more personal and profound

1646
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:43,920
significance to him that superseded any

1647
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:46,000
of the rumors surrounding it there are

1648
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:48,319
many many more tales and the lore about

1649
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:50,880
secret nazi quests to find secret relics

1650
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:52,960
and even lost lands from atlantis to

1651
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:55,760
hyperborea to shambala some like their

1652
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:58,079
expedition to tibet to find evidence of

1653
01:00:00,950 --> 01:00:00,079
the origins of the aryan race are quite

1654
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:00,960
real

1655
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:02,799
while others with stories of lost

1656
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:05,040
continents and subterranean worlds seem

1657
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:08,640
to exist only in the dreamy haze of myth

1658
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:10,960
but there's one other notorious nazi

1659
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:12,559
expedition for which we have a

1660
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:14,960
considerable amount of evidence and it's

1661
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:17,040
one that occupies perhaps the most

1662
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:19,599
notorious space within the lore

1663
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:23,280
on december 17th 1938 the new schwabia

1664
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,000
expedition left hamburg for antarctica

1665
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:28,799
aboard the ms schwabenland the secret

1666
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:31,359
expedition had 33 members plus

1667
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:33,599
schwabenland's crew of 24.

1668
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,440
a month later on january 19th 1939 the

1669
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:39,280
ship arrived at the princess martha

1670
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:41,359
coast in an area which had recently been

1671
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:43,119
claimed by norway

1672
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:45,040
but the germans paid little mind to this

1673
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:46,000
claim

1674
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:48,079
nazi german flags were placed along the

1675
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:50,640
icy coast claiming it as their own

1676
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:52,559
they named this new territory new

1677
01:00:55,750 --> 01:00:53,920
schwabenland

1678
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:55,760
but what were they looking for a world

1679
01:01:00,069 --> 01:00:58,319
away at the ice-covered south pole what

1680
01:01:02,309 --> 01:01:00,079
was so important that they would divert

1681
01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:02,319
those resources to make this expedition

1682
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:04,799
at the dawn of the second world war

1683
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:06,240
and could the bases that were built

1684
01:01:09,829 --> 01:01:07,920
there have provided a place for what

1685
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:09,839
remained of the third reich to escape at

1686
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:11,440
the end of the war

1687
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:12,960
there's much more to that story than you

1688
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:14,880
might think and that's where we'll pick

1689
01:01:17,860 --> 01:01:16,160
up next time

1690
01:01:23,660 --> 01:01:17,870
i'll see you then